Leon
Trotsky: Discussions with Albert Glotzer
October-November
1931
[Writing
of Leon Trotsky, Vol. 13. Supplement (1929-1933), New York 1979, p.
93-98]
We
observed particularly, during our stay, Comrade Trotsky’s enormous
energy. While we were there he was completing the last chapters of
the second volume of The
History of the Russian Revolution.
(The first volume will be out in February [1932], published by Simon
and Schuster Company.) Comrade Trotsky lives very methodically. He
goes to bed early and rises early. He begins to work in the morning
and continues until he is ready to go to sleep. All his energy is
directed toward the completion of his present work. In addition to
the book, Trotsky maintains correspondence with the leading sections
of the International Left Opposition. He reads the most important
international periodicals of the Comintern, the organs of the various
parties, and the capitalist press of the leading countries. The only
break in this program of immense work of the leader of the
Opposition, Comrade Trotsky finds in fishing occasionally and, at
rare moments, in hunting. This is the only form of relaxation from
the terrific pace with which he works.
America
absorbs a great deal of Comrade Trotsky’s interest. To him the
United States symbolizes capitalism at the height of its development.
“This period sees America assuming the leadership of the capitalist
world,” he told us. He continued: “While it is not excluded that
America can rise out of the present crisis and attain its former
strength, it will have to do this at the expense of the rest of the
world. The United States will turn its attention to the quest for a
redivision of the world markets. And in this development it will
exhibit its ruthlessness. One of the weaknesses in the present
situation is the subjective factor. It is not enough to say that
statistics point to the impossibility for America to rise out of the
present difficulties. We must not forget that from the subjective
point of view there does not exist a revolutionary working class to
harass America at home. It apparently feels free to proceed without
much protest with wage cuts on a national scale and repressions
against the American working class.
“But
in spite of this we have reason to be hopeful for the American
working class. The effects of the crisis have a tremendous influence
in shattering their bourgeois and petty-bourgeois longings, which
came as a result of the stupendous rise of American capitalism during
the almost uninterrupted growth of industry there. But America has
passed that ‘golden era.’ I think that it is correct to say that
from now on its development will be a far more difficult one, made at
the expense of the rest of the world and in particular through
increased persecution of the working class at home. It is nowhere
written that the United States must be last on the calendar of the
revolution. The world character of the economy, plus various
combinations of circumstances, can push the United States to the
upper portion of the list. I have spoken on this same question to the
American comrades before. The problem, however, assumes even more
importance now.
“A
great deal depends upon the preparations made by the Communists for
the struggles of the future. The Comintern heretofore refused to
recognize the role of American imperialism and only after a criticism
by the Opposition made a belated turn about-face. But it is
absolutely necessary for the Communists to understand the role of
American capitalism, see its development, and prepare for the
future.”
Jokingly
we asked Comrade Trotsky whether he would like to come to the United
States to live. He expressed a real desire to be here, but replied:
“I think it is best to wait until the revolution and I trust that
you comrades will push a little faster to accomplish this.”
Comrade
Trotsky is deeply interested in the youth movement Repeatedly he
asked us questions regarding the youth in the States. “Have you any
youth in the Opposition?” “What kind of youth activity have you
been carrying on?” “What are the possibilities of organizing a
youth movement supporting the Opposition and training, educating, and
preparing the cadres of youth for the future?” He expressed himself
as follows: “It is absolutely necessary that the Opposition
concentrate on winning the youth to its support. Unlike the
thoroughly corrupted bureaucrats, it is quite possible to win large
sections of the youth to the Opposition. They are less corrupted and
are more susceptible to the ideas of the Left Opposition. We must
concentrate especially upon winning them to our banner. They will
become a tremendous reserve for us. I should really like to see
efforts made in this field of work.” The steps already taken by the
[CLA] National Executive Committee in promulgating youth work through
the issuance of Young
Spartacus
and helping to create the [Spartacus] Youth Clubs will find favorable
support from Comrade Trotsky. He is especially interested in our
efforts in this field of work.
America
is not altogether strange to him. He asked about the role of the
Socialist Party in the present crisis. “Does the Socialist Party
take an active part in the struggles of the workers in the present
crisis? Are they really making efforts to build their organization?
Do the workers support the anti-working class activity of the
Hillquits and the liberal mutterings of the Thomases? American
Socialism has not changed its reformist approach to the problems
confronting the proletariat. It remains a constant danger to the
working class.”
In
connection with the Socialist Party, Comrade Trotsky asked about the
role of the Jewish workers in this country. He told us that it was
quite possible to win their support. But for this it would be
necessary to publish our literature in the Jewish language in order
to make it accessible to them. “Yes, you should not neglect the
Jewish workers. They will be a great help to you and the American
comrades should try to attract them to the Opposition and win them to
the support of our ideas.”
Comrade
Trotsky takes a deep interest in the minutest tasks of the
Opposition. He asked many questions about The
Militant, which
he regards very highly. “ The
Militant
must be maintained as a weekly at all costs. It is a powerful weapon
and no doubt is your strongest phase of work.” He questioned us
regarding sales, whether it was read by the members of the party,
what our financial condition is, and numerous other questions
regarding the existence of the Lovestone group and the activity of
the party. He often repeated the absolute necessity to win the party
members. “They are most important,” he told us, “and for this
you must organize your party fractions. They must be active bodies,
participating in the life of the party. We must not lose sight of the
fact that we are a party faction, and our future depends directly
upon the whole future of communism and the party.”
We
found Comrade Trotsky in good spirits despite the extreme hardships
of his exile. He must write in order to live, and this in a sense is
a handicap in that it does not allow him to concentrate all his
thoughts and energies on the International Opposition. We talked
about life in Turkey, and often its humorous though tragic sides
would come in for discussion. The fire that broke out almost a year
ago destroyed his library and a box of valuable clippings that were
collected over a period of years. Comrade Trotsky is planning a book
on the international situation following the completion of his
present work. It was for this that he had been collecting material.
“When we first arrived, I made inquiries regarding a library in
Turkey which I might be able to use in my work. But, unfortunately, I
learned that such an institution was not to be found in Turkey. After
the fire, I sent Comrade Frankel to the National University of
Istanbul, requesting the use of the school library. They were anxious
to help, but found that impossible because the university did not
have a library which I could use. So you see that I am really
handicapped in this sense.” We learned from the comrades there that
the fire destroyed almost everything. It broke out late at night, and
before much could be done, it spread through the entire house. All
that was saved from the ruins were the archives, Lenin’s letters,
and documents. His library, consisting of two thousand read and
annotated volumes and clippings, was burned. The clothes belonging to
the entire family were destroyed, and $150 in cash was burned. “But
even so,” Comrade Trotsky said smilingly, “it could have been
very much worse.”
Comrade
Frankel related the following incident to us: “Shortly after the
fire we engaged a room in a nearby hotel. All of us felt dejected and
were very much disturbed by the irreparable losses of the fire —
all except Comrade Trotsky. No sooner were we settled, than he laid
his manuscripts out on the table, called the stenographer over, and
began to dictate chapters of his book as though nothing at all had
happened during the night.”
Upon
news of this loss, books were sent to Trotsky from different parts of
the world. These help to rebuild the library that he lost. Books on
economics, history, politics, and the labor movement are especially
needed and welcomed by him. In this article we appeal to our
comrades, sympathizers, and anybody who is interested to communicate
with us in regard to rebuilding the library of Comrade Trotsky.
Comrade
Trotsky is much troubled by the situation in Germany. He regards the
situation there to be decisive in its influence on the whole trend of
events internationally. “A victory of fascism in Germany would have
disastrous effects everywhere,” he told us. “The party does not
realize that should Hitler come to power he would destroy the party
and labor movement. But instead of that it plays with the situation
in a most criminal manner. It recalls to my mind the period of 1923
when Brandler and Company capitulated. Then the party followed behind
events instead of leading the proletariat in the struggle for power.
From all appearances the party is continuing the very same course
today. The Opposition must do all in its power to prevent this
attitude of the party from continuing. This is one of our chief
tasks. We must make the party realize that its task at present is to
organize working class resistance to fascism and prepare for the
revolutionary struggle.”
From
Germany we went on to a discussion of the situation in the Soviet
Union. We asked Comrade Trotsky just what effects the world crisis
would have on the Soviet Union. Comrade Trotsky was of the opinion
that “the world crisis will have severe repercussions there. It
appears now that the five-year plan is experiencing a number of
difficulties about which we warned long ago, but the relation of the
economy on a world scale to the national economy will cause a crisis
of the five-year plan and only increase the economic difficulties of
the proletarian dictatorship.” Even now, while Stalin and Litvinov
speak of the possibilities of the peaceful development side by side
of socialism and capitalism, the capitalist powers only work to make
matters more difficult for the Soviet economy. For the Opposition it
means more determined efforts than ever.
“The
capitulators find things more difficult than ever. Those who were
influenced by the step of Radek and the other older comrades and who
sincerely felt that a change was taking place in the policy of the
party found themselves returned to exile shortly after they were
taken back into the party. Radek tries to establish himself in the
party by continuously denouncing the Opposition and renouncing every
principled idea that he ever held. He has become the most vicious of
them all. Most of the capitulators do not exist politically. They
have sold their ideas for the right to return to the centers to enjoy
the existence of ‘marked men.’ The genuine Oppositionists remain
steadfast. There are many thousands in exile. It is hard to estimate
how many. Official figures will tell nothing. Those in exile are
forced to go through terrific persecution and in spite of the
extremely unfavorable conditions of work — lack of writing
materials, books, periodicals, relations with other Opposition
colonies, or with the party itself — exhibit a fearlessness that
should encourage every Oppositionist. There are in exile today
between three and five thousand young Oppositionists as well as a few
thousand Old Bolsheviks. In the party ranks there are currents of
Oppositionists everywhere. Stalin thinks that by his severe
repressions he can stamp out the Opposition. But he can never do this
in spite of everything he does. The Opposition lives because its
ideas are the ideas of Marx and Lenin, because their ideas are the
ideas of the October Revolution.”